Expansion of Firs Primary School

Results updated 3 Aug 2021

SUMMARY

9 responses to the Citizen Space consultation and 1 further response by email

In favour of the proposal?

6 – No from Residents and a staff member

2 – Yes from Parents

2 – Not sure from Residents

 

10 COMMENTS RECEIVED in total, some people raising multiple points.

 

7 – Increased Traffic congestion

2 - Noise of pupils near their property

2 - Privacy near proposed new buildings

1 - Noise during construction

1 – Suggesting design ideas

 

>Resident comment 1:

In favour of the proposal? No

Your neighbours at *** firs road how close in meters would this be to our home, how high would it be compared to our garden fence  as we are extremely concerned as it runs the full length of our outside space and has the potential to have a huge impact on our homes lives. Parking and dropping off is already an accident waiting to happen the increase of thirty pupils per year over the next couple of years will have firs road at a standstill.

Response:

The replacement Nursery building is proposed to be 5m from your garage wall. The building is 3m tall however, the 400mm rise in height of your garden will reduce its impact.

We appreciate that traffic at drop off and pick up times is a concern, as it is around most schools.  Therefore an additional 16 staff parking bays will be provided within the site as part of the proposals, which will reduce the number of staff cars parked on the surrounding roads. The potential increase in drop-off/pick-up trips will be considered within the Transport Statement that will accompany the planning application. The Traffic and Road Safety Team advise that attendants currently patrol the school roads every two weeks to advise on and enforce safe parking. The school already benefits from a Travel Plan, but this will be reviewed as part of the application and additional measures introduced if considered necessary. Additional scooter / cycle parking is also proposed to encourage more sustainable means of travelling to school for both pupils and staff.

Resident/Parent comment 2:

In favour of the proposal? No

My feedback is in the capacity of the immediate neighbour of the school (sharing the school boundary) and of the parent whose child will start to join the school from September 2021. This is important to mention as any expansion will affect me both as a resident and parent.

My first concern is with the proposed building of the new Nursery.  As per my understanding, it seems to be on the existing playground which is used by the children of Infant school (Reception - Year 2). Any new construction will rob the children of their current playing space which is unfair as the current space provides a very secure yet open playground to little children who are not that confident of huge open spaces. It would be a shame to devoid the children of their existing playground.  This playground provides a perfect comfortable space for the little ones to run wild in a safe zone. In its current state, the playground helps children unwind and promotes their mental well being which is of utmost importance in today's times.  Hence, I would strongly advocate against having the new building on this beautiful playground and I look forward to my child playing and enjoying this space in the future.

My second concern is about the existing traffic concerns during the school run times. Already, the traffic is a menace and poses a big safety hazard during school pick up and drop times. Every day we see the school issuing pleas and requests to parents with regard to their car parking but it seems to fall on deaf ears.  Every day, the cars are parked at the corner yellow lines of Gaydon Road and irresponsible parking is done by the parents which blocks the driveway of the residents thus causing them distress and agony.  The expansion will add to these miseries and will make the school-run times a nightmare for the residents. The location of the school already struggles with the current parking and any further extension will definitely pose a big safety hazard.

Hence, without addressing and resolving these two major issues, the expansion doesn't looks to be a feasible idea.

Response:

The replacement Nursery block is proposed to be sited opposite the current reception/Nursery classrooms on the grassed area. The reduction of play space in the KS1 area will be managed by reducing the number of year groups accessing that particular outdoor area because of the transfer to different classrooms within school - i.e. Reception would have the whole of the current Reception & former Nursery space; the replacement Nursery would have its own equivalent sized space around the new unit; and Y1 would have the entirety of the hardstanding playground, the current tyre area and the grass/hut area without having to share with another year group.

Y2 will be making use of the KS2 playground, they would have a bigger space in which to play, and the school would continue with timetabled use of the outdoor facilities at break and lunchtimes. The design team have worked hard with the school to ensure play spaces and facilities are sufficient and appropriate for each age group so that the school facilities are improved by this development rather than diminished by it.

We appreciate that traffic at drop off and pick up times is a concern, as it is around most schools.  Therefore an additional 16 staff parking bays will be provided within the site as part of the proposals which will reduce the number of staff cars parked on the surrounding roads. The potential increase in drop-off/pick-up trips will be considered within the Transport Statement that will accompany the planning application. The Traffic and Road Safety Team advise that attendants currently patrol the school roads every two weeks to advise on and enforce safe parking. The school already benefits from a Travel Plan, but this will be reviewed as part of the application and additional measures introduced if considered necessary. Additional scooter / cycle parking is also proposed to encourage more sustainable means of travelling to school for both pupils and staff.

Resident comment 3:

In favour of the proposal? Not sure

Have no problem as such with the school being increased from a 2 to a 3 form entry however currently with the school being a 2 form entry, there are serious safety issues when parents and guardians are dropping off or picking up their child / ren at school.
Cars are often parked across residents driveways or even left in a dangerous position e.g. on the corner of Firs Road / Sidmouth Road or Firs Road / Gaydon Road.  Whilst none of us want this to happen, due to the selflessness and disregard by some parents / guardians when it comes to parking their cars, it can only be a matter of time before an accident will occur.   By increasing the size of the school without therefore making sufficient facilities to reflect an increase in traffic flow particularly around school drop off and pick up times will undoubtedly cause serious traffic and safety issues.  Simply painting double no parking lines will not work as these will be ignored and unless a dedicated zone is provided which can be used for a quick drop off or pick up  and is actively marshalled then this problem will only increase.

Response:

We appreciate that traffic at drop off and pick up times is a concern, as it is around most schools.  Therefore an additional 16 staff parking bays will be provided within the site as part of the proposals which will reduce the number of staff cars parked on the surrounding roads. The potential increase in drop-off/pick-up trips will be considered within the Transport Statement that will accompany the planning application. Your comments regarding the irresponsible parking have been forwarded to the Traffic and Road Safety team who advise that attendants patrol the school roads every two weeks to advise on and enforce safe parking. The school already benefits from a Travel Plan, but this will be reviewed as part of the application and additional measures introduced if considered necessary. Additional scooter / cycle parking is also proposed to encourage more sustainable means of travelling to school for both pupils and staff.

Resident comment 4:

In favour of the proposal? No

I am concerned that a two storey building erected so close to our garden will leave us with no privacy, particularly during the winter months when the trees lose their leaves, exposing our garden and bedroom windows. The privacy that we currently have was the one of the main reasons why we bought our home.  We would not object to any plan that would maintain this privacy.

Response:

The proposed new 2 storey block will also require full planning permission and hence an opportunity for you to formally comment on these proposals. Please visit the public access database and insert the planning reference: 105221/FUL/21 to view the proposals and express your views.

The planning department insist that consideration is given to neighbours when deciding the location, height and style of building as well as glazing allowed on upper storeys of a multi-storey building.

Resident comment 5:

In favour of the proposal? No

I’m very annoyed with the parents on the school runs littering the streets. They are parking on my driveway (on my property) or parking and blocking the driveway. With the expansion proposed, all the problems will be exasperated.

Response:

We appreciate that traffic at drop off and pick up times is a concern, as it is around most schools.  Therefore an additional 16 staff parking bays will be provided within the site as part of the proposals which will reduce the number of staff cars parked on the surrounding roads. The potential increase in drop-off/pick-up trips will be considered within the Transport Statement that will accompany the planning application. Your comments regarding the irresponsible parking have been forwarded to the Traffic and Road Safety team who advise that attendants patrol the school roads every two weeks to advise on and enforce safe parking. The school already benefits from a Travel Plan, but this will be reviewed as part of the application and additional measures introduced if considered necessary. Additional scooter / cycle parking is also proposed to encourage more sustainable means of travelling to school for both pupils and staff.

Parent comment 6:

In favour of the proposal? Yes

Whilst I am not against the expansion I do have concerns over the additional cars and parking that this expansion will inevitable bring with it. Parking and traffic on and around the school and key times is horrendous at the moment. The expansions will increase this problem by 50% once the school is at full capacity. I personally have witnessed so many near misses with drivers and children over the past 5 years. Even the current staggered start and finish times do not help. Telling people to park at Firs Road Park or the carpark on Firsway is all well and good but those car parks and in a bad state of repair and too small for the number of cars. Whilst I appreciate public transport networks are available, for working parents who are trying to fit work around children starting and finishing school they are highly likely to be in their own vehicles and this is not something that is ever going to change. More consideration into sorting the two areas mentioned above to become suitable parking areas needs to be considered as part of a duty of care to the students to keep them safe.

Response:

We appreciate that traffic at drop off and pick up times is a concern, as it is around most schools.  Therefore an additional 16 staff parking bays will be provided within the site as part of the proposals which will reduce the number of staff cars parked on the surrounding roads. The potential increase in drop-off/pick-up trips will be considered within the Transport Statement that will accompany the planning application. Your comments regarding the irresponsible parking have been forwarded to the Traffic and Road Safety team who advise that attendants patrol the school roads every two weeks to advise on and enforce safe parking. The school already benefits from a Travel Plan, but this will be reviewed as part of the application and additional measures introduced if considered necessary. Additional scooter / cycle parking is also proposed to encourage more sustainable means of travelling to school for both pupils and staff.

Staff comment 7:

In favour of the proposal? No

It is very sad that although the staff have been told that they are 'stakeholders' and can have a say in how the new construction will look, they haven't really have they? Staff have completed a questionnaire provided by the project manager, but that was not worth the paper it was written on.  No consultation was had with contractors who had already decided on the new scheme! The proposals for the temporary Nursery/Year 1 block for example, is totally ludicrous, mainly the size of the toilets and cubicles. These adult sized appliances are no good for little 4 year old children to access. No staff have been consulted at all, and this is evident across proposals for both key stages. Very poor indeed, these consultants/designers/contractors clearly don't know what is required in schools. A big mess from start to finish! And to suggest that any future alterations are to be at the school's cost is an appalling attitude. Shame on you Trafford/Amey.

Response:

School (Head and Business Manager) have been involved during every step of the process so far, which started with procuring and scoring the successful contractor. They are an integral part of the design team, attending weekly design meetings which has resulted in significant changes to the original scheme brief for a most holistic approach to the site as a whole. School projects have to be a collaborative effort to ensure the expansion will work for the school.  School consulted with staff on 21st May 2021 via a project overview document along with a follow up consultation in the format of an open Q&A session on 25th May 2021 (with responses shared across all staff on 13th June 2021) ahead of a planned consultation with all stakeholders on 22nd June 2021. School welcomes thoughts and suggestions from colleagues and continues to regularly liaise with appropriate Staff stakeholders and Governors so that they have an opportunity to comment on plans as they are proceeding which often brings new thoughts to the table. 

The School have been keen to re-provide the Nursery as a separate block and the toilet cubicles within it will be changed to meet the needs of the children.

The Design Team would usually have an opportunity to talk through the designs with all stakeholders at an informal face to face consultation at the school, which was due to be held on 22nd June 2021, but unfortunately, due to COVID, the consultation has had to take place via the online Citizen Space portal.

The timelines on this project are very challenging and so decisions often need to be taken quickly which relies on cooperation and collaboration with all stakeholders on all sides of the Design Team. There will also be further opportunities for staff to get involved at the detailed design stage when classroom layouts are being considered. We understand that School are already having such conversations with departmental leads, for them to gather relevant information to share with the Design Team.

Resident comment 8:

In favour of the proposal? No

In response to the Firs Primary School expansion plans, we would like to register our objections to the proposals, along with requests for modifications and additional clarification.

The lack of scale and detail in the plans is very concerning. The plans do not extend far enough to the west and southwest for us to fully examine how the plans will affect our boundary.

Response

I believe you are referring to the earlier planning application in relation to this school, relating to the installation of the 3 temporary classrooms which only referred to their locations. More extensive plans can be found in the Design and Access Statement in the main planning application in relation to this school expansion, which refers to the new extensions. Please visit the public access database and use planning reference number: 105221/FULL/21.

When plans were submitted in 2009/10 for expansion after the closure of Cherry Manor Primary School, we did not object to expansion of the playground, but were surprised and disappointed to discover outdoor gym equipment was included, which was never suggested on the plan presented to us. As such, we are very wary of the detail, or lack, in the current plans.

Response

The outdoor gym equipment was installed in 2020 when a permanent planning application was sought in relation to the double mobile classrooms in 2019. Full details of the trim trail and outdoor gym equipment including the location and type of equipment can be found on the planning application 99423/FUL/2019.

Firstly, we object to any increase in the scale of Firs Road School because of the inevitable increase in the amount of additional traffic caused by it. The road network around the school, and the narrow original Firs Road opposite Manor Court flats in particular, are already overwhelmed by the current volume of cars used by parents dropping pupils in the morning and afternoons. This is evident by the daily breaching of the yellow line system, parking across driveways and on the grass verges. We have even witnessed cars being driven completely over the wooded grassland to bypass congestion at the roundabout. We strongly believe it is just a matter of time before someone is injured during the school runs, and that the council are already risking public safety, and particularly the safety of children, by not ensuring that the parking rules are adhered to. Any increase to the school intake is unthinkable considering how this would impact the current safety concerns.

Response

We appreciate that traffic at drop off and pick up times is a concern, as it is around most schools. Therefore an additional 16 staff parking bays will be provided within the site as part of the proposals which will reduce the number of staff cars parked on the surrounding roads. The potential increase in drop-off/pick-up trips will be considered within the Transport Statement that will accompany the planning application. Your comments regarding the irresponsible parking have been forwarded to the Traffic and Road Safety team who advise that attendants patrol the school roads every two weeks to advise on and enforce safe parking. The school already benefits from a Travel Plan, but this will be reviewed as part of the application and additional measures introduced if considered necessary. Additional scooter / cycle parking is also proposed to encourage more sustainable means of travelling to school for both pupils and staff.

The proposed increase in school intake should be urgently re-examined to assess the risk to public safety, and accurately determine if more suitable alternatives are available to service the schooling requirements of the borough, following the closure of Cherry Manor School and the current increases in the housing stock in the area.

Response

Cherry Manor Primary School closed in July 2008 and the site has since been redeveloped into a new SEN School –Brentwood School relocated there in September 2016. The Firs Primary School has been selected for expansion because it is an outstanding school, centrally placed in the Sale West area and has the capacity to accommodate additional buildings and enable the removal of a temporary building which is currently being used for permanent provision.

Secondly, we object to the inevitable increase in noise from the expansion of the school. As residents whose home is directly adjacent to the school, we already find noise levels and lack of privacy a concern. If the temporary Yr6 classrooms are to be moved closer to our home, we would kindly request that the council install a solid wooden fence along the length of the boundary between our home and the school to dampen down the noise level and offer us improved privacy. Trafford Council and school representatives are very welcome to visit us and examine our current boundary to understand why we feel this is an important requirement to the plans. It is also important to us to reduce the noise levels as much as possible as my husband now has to work from home five days a week. We have lived in this property for 18 years and our boundary consists of mature hedging which, although wide, is patchy and does not offer us privacy during periods when the pupils are outdoors. As such, it has been difficult to enjoy our outdoor space during break times, as pupils will often peer in through the hedging as they play right up to the boundary line. A solid fence would give us some much needed privacy. The plans must consider utilising the large available green spaces on the site for outdoor play, as there seems to be a huge amount of space that could be used without pushing all play activities to one of the main residential boundaries. While our boundary consists of plants and hedging, the school boundary consists of basic chicken wire fencing and cement posts, which is regular pulled up by foxes, creating gaps. We have had a dog for seven years and have struggled to access the chicken wire fencing to repair these gaps, which has resulted in some instances of our dog escaping into school grounds at weekends, chasing cats or squirrels. In those instances, we have struggled to lure the dog through the gaps back into our garden. To avoid this happening on week days when pupils are attending, we have made efforts over the past seven years to keep the dog indoors during breaks and lunchtime so that she does not escape, and we make every effort to monitor the dog when she’s outdoors so that she’s not a nuisance to pupils, and likewise that the pupils do not unsettle the dog. We have occasionally asked the school to check the boundary for gaps in the chicken wire and the caretaker has always been very helpful in that regard. However, our most recent request, to ensure that the children do not approach the dog, in the event that she ever escapes during school hours, was met with no communication from the school except for the head teacher to send the Council Dog Warden to our door, who warned us that our dog would be impounded and possibly destroyed if she broke through the fencing. That was an extremely distressing and disappointing experience and we feel it was entirely unnecessary and could’ve been dealt with in a more friendly and neighbourly way. For this reason, we feel it is extremely important that the expansion proposals include solid, secure, wooden fencing in keeping with the aesthetic and ethos of the school and neighbourhood to be an area of woodland and conservation. We would also request that the council installs this fence without damaging the existing plants or hedging, since we are unable to access the boundary line from our side in order to install any fencing ourselves. Again, we invite the council to inspect our property to understand the limitations we have to access the boundary line. We would kindly request that the fencing extend from the front to the back of our property.

Response

Conlon Construction are fully aware of their responsibilities in being good neighbours and ensuring noise from their works is kept to a bare minimum. All reasonable steps will be taken to ensure they carry out adequate measures to minimise any inconvenience;

• Where appropriate, they will instigate the use of super silenced plant allowing a reduction in the decibel rating.
• Electrically operated plant will be used on site were practical and will ensure all plant used will be effectively silenced.
• No radios will be allowed on site.
• Where it is necessary to carry out noisy activities, these will be carried out in strict accordance with Local Authority requirements.

With regards to the fencing, the school report that they regularly check their perimeter fence and repair where necessary to prevent safeguarding issues but it is your responsibility to restrain your pets so that they are not a risk to others.

Thirdly, we object to the plans to install a hard surface play area behind the temporary Yr6 classrooms. In order to minimise the noise levels we suffer, we would like to request that the play area is moved to the proposed site for additional parking, and that the area behind the Yr6 classrooms is used for parking. In this way, cars parked in this area will not create a noise nuisance during the day. We also think it is more aesthetically beneficial to the school to locate the play area along the front of the school, rather than rows of cars which do nothing to ‘advertise’ the ethos of the school as a champion of outdoor activity and environmental consciousness. The plans need to accurately reflect the footprint of the hard surface play area before any further progress is made. The border of the current plan crops the play area and does not communicate its shape and size in relation to our boundary and Firs Road. The area we can see is too close to the residential boundary for the reasons explained, and we also need to understand its proposed use including, any installed play equipment and times of access, such as after school activities.

Response

The extended car park has been located at the front of the school to minimise the loss of potential play space.

Remaining queries which we would appreciate being answered: Where is the existing outdoor gym equipment being moved to?

Response

The Junior trim trail and outdoor gym equipment will be relocated on the grassed areas beside the extended playground when the construction work is complete.

Will any trees be removed or reduced?

Response

There are plans to remove one tree near the replacement Nursery block, however, this is on condition that two trees are planted elsewhere on the site.

Is there a possibility that the location of the Yr6 classrooms could house a permanent structure in the future?

Response

There are no plans to retain the relocated Year 6 classrooms. When the construction work is complete they will be removed from the site.

Can we have more clarification on the purpose and use of the proposed new pedestrian gate on Firs road?

Response

This gate is to prevent bottlenecks and spread out the entry and exit of pupils from the site. It is intended for staff and junior pupils.

Does the plan document how the additional staff parking spaces might create additional street space for parents, with statistics of current staff parking and projections of future pupils arriving by car?

Response

The additional staff parking area will accommodate 16 spaces and will help to relieve parked staff cars on the road

Resident comment 9:

In favour of the proposal? Not sure

The plans only mention extending the school to three forms of entry, but, presumably the extra form, will, given time, feed through to the older years, so that, eventually, all years will have three forms, instead of just two. I've no idea how many extra children will be involved, but, on the face of it, there could potentially be a 50% increase in the school's population.

Response

The school currently admits 2 forms of entry (60 pupils) in each year group, 420 pupils in total as well as a 26 place FTE (full time equivalent) Nursery and a 10 place Small Specialist Class (SSC). The plan is to expand the school to 3 FE or 90 pupils in each year group (Reception to Year 6) 630 pupils in total, plus the Nursery. There is also a proposal to increase the capacity of the SSC space.

I therefore have a number of questions.

1. The plans only mention a temporary year one classroom, but where are the children going to be accommodated as they progress into years 2 to 6. Will there be a new planning application for new buildings for each of the next five years?

Response

Another planning application has been submitted (105221/FUL/21) which details out the proposed accommodation to ensure School has sufficient space for 3 forms of entry throughout. The proposed plans were also included in the online consultation documents. Plan 1 - Proposed site plan outlines in red the areas of proposed extension along with Plan 2 - Proposed new block ground and first floor plans which shows the close up of the proposed new block internal configuration.

 

2. The roads around the school cannot cope with the school's traffic at present and this will only get worse. The cars of parents are being parked all over the place at both the start and the end of the school day. Firs Road is reduced to one lane, as are the roads that lead off it. Cars actually park on the pavements at road junctions, so that it is impossible to see oncoming traffic, without edging out into its path. For a couple of hours a day, everybody has to drive down the centre of the road. It's chaotic and dangerous, both for drivers and children. There are traffic calming measures, but are parking restrictions being considered, especially at junctions? As I've said, it will only get worse.

 

Response

We appreciate that traffic at drop off and pick up times is a concern, as it is around most schools. Therefore an additional 16 staff parking bays will be provided within the site as part of the proposals which will reduce the number of staff cars parked on the surrounding roads. The potential increase in drop-off/pick-up trips will be considered within the Transport Statement that will accompany the planning application. Your comments regarding the irresponsible parking have been forwarded to the Traffic and Road Safety team who advise that attendants patrol the school roads every two weeks to advise on and enforce safe parking. The school already benefits from a Travel Plan, but this will be reviewed as part of the application and additional measures introduced if considered necessary. Additional scooter / cycle parking is also proposed to encourage more sustainable means of travelling to school for both pupils and staff.

3. We have lived near the school's playing field for over forty years now. In years gone by, it was normal practice for teachers to keep children away from the field's fence and thus reduce the noise nuisance for the school's neighbours. Alas this is a thing of the past and now, sometimes, children seem to be encouraged to congregate near the fences. This makes it impossible to sit quietly in our garden during break times. This has also been exacerbated by the positioning of a gazebo near the end of our garden a few years ago. It was supposed to be for quiet outdoor lessons, but in reality, the children see it as a giant playhouse and treat it as such. If there is to be a significant increase in the number of children, can the school put policies in place to mitigate the noise nuisance?

Response

Living adjacent to a school brings with it the sound of children playing and the associated traffic at drop off and pick up times. With increasing pupils the noise levels may increase, however, the school may introduce staggered break and lunch times to maximise the use of indoor and outdoor facilities.

Parent comment 10 - see attached document

Files:

• Parent Comment 10 with responses, 873.8 KB (Office Word 2007 XML document)